EC&M Talk Rules

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kkelly's picture
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Joined: 2014-02-12

Welcome to EC&M Talk! A Non-DIY Site

The purpose of EC&M Talk is to provide a fun meeting and learning place for people with an interest in the Electrical Construction and Maintenance Industry. Note that while all are welcome, our primary interest is in serving the EC&M Pro user. This is a site for the industry professional, constructed by and run by EC&M Magazine and its parent company Penton Media.

Please note that EC&M Talk is a moderated site. Moderators will delete and edit posts in an effort to keep the site free of flame wars, insults, crude language, and advertising or off-topic replies. Please be polite, professional and helpful in your replies.

Please read through the following main site rules and instructions.


1. Who Is Welcome Here?

Anyone in the Electrical Construction and Maintenance industry, and other polite and fun people willing to contribute. Please feel free to ask any question relating to Electrical Construction and Maintenance, or other topics of general interest except Do-It-Yourself (DIY) type work. We welcome questions, so please don't be overly critical of other member's posts.

a. All site users must treat other site users with respect. Anyone who posts defamatory, insulting or otherwise disrespectful comments toward others will find their posts deleted and possibly their posting privileges suspended or revoked.

b. Any site user that becomes belligerent, argumentative, or requires too much attention of the Moderators will lose their posting privileges either with or without warning.

c. Any post or reply that we feel may cause harm to others or violates any of the site rules will be edited or deleted.

2. Do-It-Yourself (DIY) - not here.

This site is for industry professionals only. Please do not ask for step-by-step instructions on purchasing, installing or repairing your own equipment.


3. No pricing questions please

Only people who actually see your job can price it accordingly. There will be no pricing allowed in the public access areas of this site. Please do not ask for or give pricing comparative information.

Posts of this type will be deleted.

4. Direct Advertising of Websites and Products, or Self Promotion of Site User.

Advertising of websites and products is not accepted in this forum. Posts of this nature will be deleted and your user account will be locked. Advertising the company you work for in the open areas of the site is forbidden until you become a Professional Member or Site Sponsor where you may put your company link in your signature and Bio/Profile area. Signature advertisements for Guests are not allowed, however, you may add your work information in your User Bio/Profile area. Advertising the company you work for via post is the same as Spam unless you are a Paid Sponsor. For more information on EC&M Advertising Opportunities.

To all Sponsors: It is your responsibility to contact our Site Administrator before posting on the site. The Site Administrator will change your user title to Sponsor. This will give a signal to all that you are actually sponsoring the site or you are a sponsor of EC&M Magazine.

Site Administrator: Kate.kelly@penton.com

5. Posting is a Privilege

Please note that you are a guest on a privately owned site. Posting here is a privilege that we hope you will enjoy and respect. The Moderators can and will remove the posting privileges of any person who does not wish to follow the rules, or in the opinion of the moderators is a detriment to the site. All Moderation decisions are final.

6. No Swearing

This is a public site. Swearing or near swearing will cause your post to be deleted.

7. Avatar and Picture posting

This public site has a "G" rating. Please do not post vulgar, crude, politically incorrect or controversial Avatars, Pictures or Cartoon like images on this site. The Moderators will immediately delete them and may deny your posting privileges. Please note that forum signatures are subject to the same rules as forum posts.

8. One Registration Only

As the forum grows larger it becomes more important that each member has only one registration name. Any member who signs up under a new name will be banned from the site. If you feel you have to re-register with a new name due to a technical problem, be sure to get it Okayed by the Site Administrator first.

Site administrator: kate.kelly@penton.com

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In order to avoid bots and spammers, please do not include an e-mail address in your posts or signature file. Contact information and e-mail addresses may be posted in your Bio/Profile area only.

12. Do not double post or bump

Choose the correct category or section for your thread and put it in only one category forum. Do not post a reply just to bump it up the list.

13. Recruiters

Post only in the "Jobs" section on the forum. There is a cost associated with posting a job if you are a recruiter. To inquire, Click on this link for advertising information .  (Put either contractor or EC&M advertising link here.)

14. Spread the word!

If you can link to this site from your website, then please do so!

electricman5's picture
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Joined: 2014-02-21

Relative to AFCIs, I have felt for a long time (since the inception of this useless nonsense) and the decision by the NFPA to endorse this nonsense that, the only reason for the rise in and acceptance of this demand is to make money for the device manufacturers! This has absolutely NO PRACTICAL USE for installation in ANY dwelling unit for any reason. I'll further stick my neck out and accuse the NFPA and the NEC "powers that be" to be in direct collusion with those manufacturers. There is NO scientific data to indicate that these have saved lives! in the event of a fire, the whole dwelling is charred beyond remains, or, there is NO evidence of char markings in,on,or,around the supposed start of the combustion. It also stands to reason that ANY PRUDENT INDIVIDUAL would seek to replace an outlet when they observe the plug falling out of, or, is abnormally loose in an outlet! WE (the electricians and others in the industry) cannot and should not be held hostage because the public is either stubborn or unwilling to maintain their own houses. Further, these"powers that be", now want to make ALL DEVICES, both AFCI and GFCI! Ha, next are they going to demand that all devices have security screws on them or, better yet, demand that the general public become licensed so that they can change a device (if able)? I feel that the NFPA and the NEC would do more to further the electrical industry by forming committees to further enhance employment and the ability for the electrical contractor/journeyman/helper/apprentice by making the industry a countrywide license,or,at least each state the mandated license issuing body and eliminate the ability of the small governmental entities from making their own stupid little inane laws so that their "OWN" can only work in that area.

attic rat's picture
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Joined: 2014-02-22

[quote=electricman5] Relative to AFCIs, I have felt for a long time (since the inception of this useless nonsense) and the decision by the NFPA to endorse this nonsense that, the only reason for the rise in and acceptance of this demand is to make money for the device manufacturers! This has absolutely NO PRACTICAL USE for installation in ANY dwelling unit for any reason. I'll further stick my neck out and accuse the NFPA and the NEC "powers that be" to be in direct collusion with those manufacturers. There is NO scientific data to indicate that these have saved lives! in the event of a fire, the whole dwelling is charred beyond remains, or, there is NO evidence of char markings in,on,or,around the supposed start of the combustion. It also stands to reason that ANY PRUDENT INDIVIDUAL would seek to replace an outlet when they observe the plug falling out of, or, is abnormally loose in an outlet! WE (the electricians and others in the industry) cannot and should not be held hostage because the public is either stubborn or unwilling to maintain their own houses. Further, these"powers that be", now want to make ALL DEVICES, both AFCI and GFCI! Ha, next are they going to demand that all devices have security screws on them or, better yet, demand that the general public become licensed so that they can change a device (if able)? I feel that the NFPA and the NEC would do more to further the electrical industry by forming committees to further enhance employment and the ability for the electrical contractor/journeyman/helper/apprentice by making the industry a countrywide license,or,at least each state the mandated license issuing body and eliminate the ability of the small governmental entities from making their own stupid little inane laws so that their "OWN" can only work in that area.[/quote]

Well put!!

dlfelectricinc's picture
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Joined: 2013-10-29

Is this a "General Discussion" or "Open Forum" site? I have several areas where I'd like other contractors opinions. We are primarily residential contractors. Several communities in our area are hiring private inspectors to replace building dept. employees. This is supposed to help cut city budgets. However, private inspectors have a greater financial interest in looking for additional violations. Example: While inspecting electrical work...the private inspector violates a gas line which was not capped after a dryer was removed. Now, the Homeowner has to hire a licensed plumber, pay for a permit and another inspection. Since the private inspector gets paid per visit...is it a conflict of interest if he looks for reasons to get paid to come back again? Most municipal inspectors would have allowed the Homeowner to fix this for about $3.00 spent at Home Depot. Also, the private inspectors have been known to recommended friends & family to R/R violations. The municipal employees faced severe penalties for the same thing. What goes on in your jurisdictions?

kkelly's picture
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Joined: 2014-02-12

("Is this a "General Discussion" or "Open Forum" site?)

This part of the forum was to point out the forum rules. I think your comments would fit better in the AFCI thread. You can comment on that thread by clicking this link: http://ecmweb.com/forums/electrical-101/national-electrical-code-nec/new...

Thanks for your comments!

macmikeman's picture
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Joined: 2014-03-14

Is there an attaboy or thanks button? I would like to thank those last three posters above for their spot on contributions.

kkelly's picture
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Joined: 2014-02-12

"Is there an attaboy or thanks button? I would like to thank those last three posters above for their spot on contributions."

That is a great suggestion. At this time, we don't have the ability to do that, but it's a great idea and I'm going to see if we can get that function added. Thanks!

guybernard's picture
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Joined: 2014-04-19

I have a 120V paint shaker fed by a 15A breaker from distribution panel. A manual starter is located near the motor. Motor = 120V, 7.8A , 1/2hp, thermaly protected (but no CSA C22.2 number 77 approval) and no indication of service factor.

I want to replace the manual starter by a control panel with 2 push buttons (2 and 4 minutes timed).
1) The 120V conduit will first pass via a switch on the side of the panel (to completely remove the power inside the control panel for maintenance with a lock on the switch.)
2) The 120V from the side panel switch will feed (via a 1A fuse) the controls (timers and contactor) and via a 10A time-delay fuse... feed the motor. (one fuse only, not on neutral)
3) The operator will start the shaker with one of the 2 push buttons and may leave the area.
4) An E-stop will also be installed on the panel door (panel is 4 feet beside the shaker)

The 15A breaker protect the short-circuit and the 10A time delay fuse (9A minimum) is the motor overload protection. Is this an acceptable arrangement? And, as the shaker has no protection (cabinet) ,should the operator close the switch or E-stop every time he removes the paint container (because it will be stop automatically by a simple timer contacts)?

Kris687748's picture
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Joined: 2014-05-19

I look forward to many interesting discussions on this forum, thank you for making the guidelines available and easy to find again.

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